Curse

Feminist Terrorist · Aug 08, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I love mesmers when they're on my team. Hate and fear them when they're on the other team. Mesmers have so many choices for builds, it's almost too hard to play them. I want to do it all at once, but can't. lol

samifly · Aug 08, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Mesmers are hated by everyone. Including other mesmers. The problem with PvE is that you cant see what the mesmer is doing unless you are the one they are targeting. Then it becomes really obvious what they do.

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 08, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Mesmers CAN deal greats amount of damage in PvE - mainly with Domination magic skills. (Backfire on PvE enemy casters is gold!) But that's only one role of a Mesmer, anyway. Mesmers are also awesome for the counter-measures that they can use against foes. A monk, necro, or Ele with no energy is useless. Same with any caster who can't get their spells off. A Warrior with no Adrenalin or energy is ineffective (I love SV!)

Most people notice when they're getting hit by churning earth, but don't notice when that Warden of the Earth's spell gets interrupted by the Mesmer.

When I'm playing mine in PvE, I run a straight Mesmer skill bar that works well for me.

From my experience, Mesmers are slowing becoming more and more accepted in PUGs. It may have something with people getting exposed to Mesmers in ABs

D'Arcangelo · Aug 08, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scavenger Rage

As necros once were, mesmer are NOW the least played class on PVE and PvP.

Maybe PvE, but in PvP a good team designed to take down the enemy with less subtle ways will have a couple mesmers. Hell, there are almost always mesmers in gvg and HA ready to ruin your day.

Sometimes mesmers can really be played badly in pve. The first half of the game might be a good area for being the "jack-of-all-trades" but when the game progresses you should try to stick to getting rid of groups of enemies quickly.

kirgr526 · Aug 08, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

In my experience, the only time Mesmers are hated is when they are targeting you in PvP.
In PvE, they aren't so much hated as they are misunderstood. Having played my Mesmer in PvE since the beginning (over 15 months now), I can honestly say that I think it is 100% true that because people can't see what you are doing is what causes the issues.

The rather prevalent view that you must cause damage to large groups of enemies is something I have never seen proof of. PvE is a team game, where your group will acheive more as a team, not as a group of heavy hitters. The Mesmer will just make everyones life easier by preventing, oh I don't know, Meteor Storms going off, healing occurring, or just taking down that annoying boss. View Mesmers as the grease that keeps everything working smoothly.

Carth` · Aug 08, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Mesmers aren't popular in PvE because you have a warrior tanking, everyone sees that he is taking a beating. You have the monk healing, everyone sees that their health goes back up and they don't die. You have a nuker casting meteor shower, everyone sees the huge meteors falling on someone with smoke effects and knockdown. With a necro you see his minions, with a ranger you see his traps or his barrage, or just see him hitting enemies at least.

With a mesmer, you don't really see anything. The enemy with backfire or empathy on them: taking loads of damage, but your team doesn't know it was you. Mesmers work best at disruption, at supporting the other characters and making it easier to kill stuff. But nobody sees this. It is a lot easier, but nobody notices, they presume it is just a good team. Just about the only thing they can see is interruption, but the fact is that most PvE enemies can be taken down without interruption.

My advice to you if you want to play a mesmer, or if you hate mesmers and always refuse them from groups, is to play a mesmer. Apart from the difficulty of getting into groups, you'll be able to see first-hand just how effective they are.

My mesmer was stuck at THK for a while, we all know how difficult it is to get a group there. Every group is 6/8 need monks. But one day there was an organised guild group doing it. They had monks already, they had warriors, eles, etc. They said "organised group 7/8 need 1 more", and you can bet dozens of people self-invited. I was just standing there, and the leader invited me - a mesmer. And when I accepted he said "yes! a mesmer". Some people out there, usually the ones who have played as a mesmer themselves, know that they are worth taking in a group. (we went on to finish it very easily, fast and without deaths, but this was due mainly to the organisation of a guild group).

It's basically just the same old cookie cutter mentality. With good teamwork most builds can work - I've been to FoW and cleared most of it with no warriors, and a smiter instead of a healer before. But that doesn't mean groups should start having no warriors and smiters instead of healers. What PUGs lack is teamwork and communication, that's why cookie cutter builds shine. Everyone knows what they have to do without saying it. You're an ele? Meteor shower. You're a monk? keep everyone alive. You're a warrior? tank and whack away. etc etc. If you start using new builds and not using the cookie cutter builds, not much would get completed. The cookie cutter builds are refined, used every day by the farmers, and eventually cut down to 5-man builds. Your mesmer doesn't belong there.

Sorry.

Mesmers will always be accepted into my groups, but 90% of other groups won't.

LifeInfusion · Aug 08, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I DISAGREE with all the above.

In PvE a mesmer is very useful if good. The problem is getting a good mesmer.

Some people that just started using mesmer think that backfire on a warrior does something. Or using power spike on a signet is a good idea...

That's the problem with mesmers...you cannot count on them unless they are someone you trust. If it is a PUG mesmer, 60% of them are crap. (Better than assassins, which are 85% crap. lol...)

Think about it. Would you rather your mesmer interrupt that Dragon's stomp and damage the ele at the same time or take the damage and just have the monk heal it? Shut down the warrior's adrenaline or let your ritualist's evasion spirits die?

MMSDome · Aug 08, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

mesmers and assassains are very much in the same boat, but mesmers arent discriminated as much as assassains. Ass' I say because no one knows how to use them, corectino very few know how and this is like mesmers, people from on the mesmers that dont know what they are doing. You will find alot more people that know how to play mesmer because theyve had mroe time in the game and usually those that have the patience to play as a mesmer love it and play it well. The people that see mesmers as useless is your typical wammo that thinks incredibly ugly aggro that gets your party killed is waht you need while mesmers will take it one a time to shut someone down, which in my opinion is a good thing? At first mesmers only looked like a pvp tool to me but to me its the only class i found it possible to do anything with henchies, from all the skill caps to complete every mission with because mesmers can unload mass damage. Everything in pve attacks even the monks so if you got ineptitude you got easy 142 damage and blind

I cant really tell you why people dont like mesmers because I cant see that point of view as it is my favorite class and it in my opinion is flawless.

lishi · Aug 08, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

The probrem of the mesmer IMO is this:

The poor design of difficult level of pve :

lets say

All the mission of the game can be beaten using those 3 thing

1)tank the damage
2) nuke the mob
3) heal the damage lessened by the tanking.

Even if the group make those thing poorly the mission is easy enough to be completed in this way.

Se there is no reason of shot down key enemy or something like that(unless in some small part of the game).

you dont have shoutdown their damage becouse you can tank it

you dont have to shoutdown their healing becouse you can overdamage them.

If many group of mob have enough damage and/or enough defence to make the tank/nuke/heal not sufficent then there will be more space for those unwanted profession

Ninetail Trickster · Aug 08, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Mesmers are hated because people don't understand where they're useful.
This isn't about them being useful or useless- it's about what their use is. Mesmers are what you need when you can't get past two monks that incessantly heal each other.
They are NOT what you need when you're faced with 10+ Jade Scarabs.
They're what you need when you're trying to take down a particularly nasty boss.
They aren't tanks.
They aren't healers.
They aren't nukers.
They're a support class. Like a Necro that isn't running MM or SS. (Except they also aren't batteries. xD)

Mesmers don't have a general use, like a warrior with his armor or a monk with his heals- but they do have an infinite number of specific uses.

/rant

Xen Foranus · Aug 08, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I know everyone in this thread is saying that Mesmer's are the hard to play well class and all...but I think the main reason that Primary Mesmer's aren't that common is because of Fast Casting.

Think about it...Fast Casting is completely AWESOME in specific builds like Fast Cast air spikes, other ele skills, and some really really long casting spells, but it's generally a waste in PvE since time isn't really an issue (unless going for masters).

A Necro primary would generally do more than a primary Mes (in PvE) because it would be allowed to cast more often due to Soul Reaping.
Interrupts would probably be an exception here, but I've never really noticed a Fast Cast interrupt before the UI changes.

Well to sum it all up, Fast Casting's utility does not extend to PvE where all you have to do is tank, nuke, heal, repeat.

Cador · Aug 08, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plushie Penguin

they don't really pose a threat to me, just a hex here or there, backfire is their only good one that gets me, but even then, when ever it's casted on me in pvp, I'm done casting for a while... playing one, the skill recharge is horrible
I don't hate them... they're just not a threat

LMDAO sorry had to respond

Esurge build or mine at least
Esurge
E burn
CoF
Power drain
E tap
Power leak
-Option slot- IoR
Resurrection Signet

Migrainer
Migraine
IoR
CoF
Power Leak
Conjure phantasm
Gale
Windborne
Res sig

I will prove 1v1 that either of these will own w/e build u can use or even in team games.

Zinger314 · Aug 08, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cador

I will prove 1v1 that either of these will own w/e build u can use or even in team games.

Erm. Duh. No one is questioning the power of a Mesmer 1v1.

What we are questioning is the power of a mesmer 8+v1.

jciardha · Aug 08, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xen Foranus

Well to sum it all up, Fast Casting's utility does not extend to PvE where all you have to do is tank, nuke, heal, repeat.

Except if you play mesmer a LOT (as I do), you'll find that trying to get spells off without Fast Casting is like suddenly going from broadband to dialup.

Or, like Urgoz's Warren this last weekend: Hex, hex, interrupt, OMG she's dead AGAIN, RES in 3 seconds, POWER DRAIN, oh no not him too, RES, Energy Tap, hex, etc.

After this last weekend, I don't think I could ever go back to resurrecting without Fast Casting to back me up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Erm. Duh. No one is questioning the power of a Mesmer 1v1.

What we are questioning is the power of a mesmer 8+v1.

A screenie of my mesmer, soloing happily:

NinjaKai · Aug 08, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Mesmers from my experience are hated because people just don't know what the hell we do. Though I have had some very nice PUGs that understand the value of a mesmer. Their are a lot of bad mesmers whos builds are just random compliations of skills without thought.

Mesmers can require a lot of knowledge depending on your prefered type of play. If you want to go distruption then you need to know what skills a monster has. Shutdown requires knowledge of the different professions in general and the best way to shut them down. E-surge and e-denial can be done with some ease.

Its generally a matter of what you know when it comes to being a mesmer.

Kuja · Aug 08, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plushie Penguin

they don't really pose a threat to me, just a hex here or there, backfire is their only good one that gets me, but even then, when ever it's casted on me in pvp, I'm done casting for a while... playing one, the skill recharge is horrible
I don't hate them... they're just not a threat

Quoted for hilarity

AW Lore · Aug 08, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Don't believe me? Try using magic against a Banished Dream Rider and tell me how many times they interrupt you.

face jade brotherhood mesmers, if they have a pair of them

, my poor ele was unable to cast a single spell while i faced them.

good mesmers are hard to come by

Quote:

they don't really pose a threat to me, just a hex here or there, backfire is their only good one that gets me, but even then, when ever it's casted on me in pvp, I'm done casting for a while... playing one, the skill recharge is horrible
I don't hate them... they're just not a threat

crippling anguish
power leak
power spike
power drain
conjure phantasm
ether feast
remove hex
clumsiness

warriors, rangers and assasins will have a hard time reaching you, elementalists...well... out of the question, necros will have it difficult, only another mesmer could take this one out, smite monks bane signet and rage signet will come handy.

backfire is a decent skill, but there are better skills.

anonymous · Aug 08, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Dont say a class is hated just because it isnt used in pve. Pve isnt the determining factor if a class is hated. Actually nothing determines if a class is hated. Just because a bunch of noobs who are worse than henchmen say something is bad doesnt make it bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Erm. Duh. No one is questioning the power of a Mesmer 1v1.

What we are questioning is the power of a mesmer 8+v1.

Being able to solo doesnt make a class good unless you can solo 8 humans using builds unknown to you.

Phoenix Ex · Aug 08, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

The problem with mesmer is this:

Yay! the mes shutdown 3 casters...(2 meteor showers fall)....3 sec everything dies, so is there a point to the shutdown to begin with?

Basically the problem is that mesmer, while good at what they do, usually only serve at most 2 purposes and most of the time 1.

A necro can do massive aoe dmg with SS, and interrupt with shiver, and use faintheartedness on warrior all at the same time. Or provide dmg and meatshield and corpse control at the same time with minions. Or being a hard to kill guy (blood vamp spells) while giving monks energy.

An ele do AoE dmg and knock down key targets, or do high spike dmg and blind foes, or do armor ignoring dmg, while protective himeself and teammates. (wards)

Ranger can do consistent multifoe dmg, while providing a meat shield with pet AND can take on the mesmer role of interruption at the same time. Not to mention traps.

Warrior can take massive dmg and still do decent dmg at the same time.

Now, a mesmer shutdown, but can he do massive dmg on par with necros and ele at the same time? Can he protect himself without monks when shutting down? Does he have any spells that is team oriented?

That's why mesmer ain't popular, because their strength is sooo specific to one, people just rather take many many multipurpose chars to speeds thing up instead. Just look in sorrows farm team, Shiver replace mesmer interrupt, minions and necro curses replace warrior shutdown. In ToPK same thing, ranger replace mesmer at caster shutdown.

Edge Martinez · Aug 08, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

My mesmer is a guild only toon. The only time I bring him out is when the guild needs him, and there are a few missions PvE where a Mesmer makes a great addition. That's by choice, though. I've been in PUGs with him before and all was well.

As far as defending a mesmer... there's no need for that. Anyone can watch the GvG's and HOH teams duke it out. You'll see just how good a Mesmer is when one of the top teams is using one. Don't just watch, though... study. I'm pretty imaginative, but the way a GOOD mesmer player uses skills shatters all illusions of what you thought you know. Shutting down 3 enemies may not seem like a big deal, but for that time they are cut off... it's like the song says, "Let the bodies hit the floor."